Hallo Dgoe,
und seine Präsentation des Beweises mit der Menge aller Teilmengen von Minute 8:35 bis Minute 11:45 ist didaktisch brilliant !
Ich schaue mir den gleich noch ein zweites Mal an.
Freundliche Grüsse, Ralf
Moderatoren: Guhrfisch, nocheinPoet
Dgoe hat geschrieben:https://youtu.be/SrU9YDoXE88
"How To Count Past Infinity" (vsauce)
Dgoe hat geschrieben:über das Universum sprach und etwas hinterfragt hatte, ob noch sinnvoll oder so. Er mit bejahend fortgesetzt... übergangen eigentlich.
Dgoe hat geschrieben:Ich habe jedenfalls jeweils meine 2-3 Einwände dort drin wiedergefunden und war überrascht wie offen sie zutage liegen.
Dgoe hat geschrieben:oben der Link ist ein ganz gutes Erklärvideo, finde ich, das den allgemeinen Konsens wiedergibt. Allerdings auf Englisch.
Ich habe jetzt mal gegoogelt und an Kritik dazu mangelt es nicht:
http://theorangeduck.com/page/infinity-doesnt-exist (Engl.)
(given a quantum probablistic universe)
Dgoe hat geschrieben:Ich habe jetzt mal gegoogelt und an Kritik dazu mangelt es nicht:
http://theorangeduck.com/page/infinity-doesnt-exist (Engl.)
So when people say that infinity exists because they can keep adding one, what they really mean is that infinity exists, given infinite time or given infinite space or given an infinite counting speed.
If we presuppose the opposite - that infinite time doesn't exist - we can easily apply the same argument in reverse. We can say that, if there is some time limit, I can't keep adding one, and so infinity must not exist!
Dgoe hat geschrieben:Ich habe jetzt mal gegoogelt und an Kritik dazu mangelt es nicht:
http://theorangeduck.com/page/infinity-doesnt-exist (Engl.)
ralfkannenberg hat geschrieben:- kannst Du diese 2-3 Einwände bitte noch einmal konkret benennen -
Dgoe hat geschrieben:Ich habe jetzt mal gegoogelt und an Kritik dazu mangelt es nicht:
http://theorangeduck.com/page/infinity-doesnt-exist (Engl.)
If there is no such thing as infinity, and there are a finite amount of numbers, then what is the biggest number? Good question. We could pose the same question to a physicist - if the universe is finite, and there are a fixed number of atoms, then what is at (or beyond) the boundary?
A physicist would probably say that because the boundary is always growing no one really knows. The universe is expanding at the speed of light - which makes observation impossible.
Consider the real numbers which have an infinite decimal expansion but where the expansion follows no pattern. It is impossible to talk about a specific one of these numbers. They are completely impossible to express. Okay so a few we can talk about such as pi and the square root of 2, but most of them just follow no pattern, have no properties, and go on infinitely. This makes them impossible to communicate. In fact nothing can be done with these numbers. Because they can't be expressed they can't even be used in mathematics.
The vast majority of real numbers are like this. The only ones that aren't are those that correspond to the natural numbers. The set of real numbers is somehow padded out with all these indescribable and fundamentally useless elements - and so many of them that in proportion it appears the set is completely full of these indescribable numbers.
The question is, do these indescribable numbers, which have no interaction individually with the rest of the mathematical universe, and only exist due to the axiom of infinity, really exist?
If anything Calculus is a shining example of finitist mathematics!
We can also consider the value of pi. In a infinite mathematical world actual pi - the full decimal expansion of pi - is said to exist. But is this really necessary? Everywhere we use the symbol pi it is equally adequate to instead talk about pi defined in limit form - a finite form. What is the usefulness of pi existing in full decimal expansion form?
There are no building blocks for infinity. It can't be defined in terms of the natural universe because infinity doesn't exist in physics. We can build seemingly close approximations but they repeatedly trick us because they don't have the properties we expect. Thompson's lamp can't really be half on and half off. Achilles in Zeno's Paradoxes can't really move at infinitesimally small distances.
But for infinity we can't find the parts we need - not even in other areas of mathematics. These parts simply don't exist.
This is ultimately why I believe infinity should not be an axiom of mathematics. It cannot be imagined - and it is not right to declare something exists which cannot be imaginable - not even in mathematics. If you say you believe in infinity, say you understand it, say you can manipulate it and do mathematics with it - it isn't true. It can't be imagined, it can't be realized, it can't be used in mathematics - only finite approximations can. You cannot imagine infinity, use infinity, describe, or realized infinity. If you could - it would be finite. Not only does infinity not exist - I think it cannot exist - not in the real world - not in imagination - not in mathematics.
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